+0.30 Can you reverse engineer our neural network? (blog.janestreet.com S:+0.19 )
316 points by jsomers 5 days ago | 200 comments on HN | Mild positive Editorial · v3.7 · 2026-02-28 11:12:23 0
Summary Scientific Advancement & Education Advocates
This technical blog post describes a machine learning puzzle and its solution, celebrating mechanistic interpretability research and intellectual problem-solving. The content primarily engages with Article 27 (scientific advancement), Articles 23 & 26 (work and education), and Article 19 (freedom of information), demonstrating commitment to knowledge sharing, educational access, and supporting research practices.
Article Heatmap
Preamble: ND — Preamble Preamble: No Data — Preamble P Article 1: ND — Freedom, Equality, Brotherhood Article 1: No Data — Freedom, Equality, Brotherhood 1 Article 2: ND — Non-Discrimination Article 2: No Data — Non-Discrimination 2 Article 3: ND — Life, Liberty, Security Article 3: No Data — Life, Liberty, Security 3 Article 4: ND — No Slavery Article 4: No Data — No Slavery 4 Article 5: ND — No Torture Article 5: No Data — No Torture 5 Article 6: ND — Legal Personhood Article 6: No Data — Legal Personhood 6 Article 7: ND — Equality Before Law Article 7: No Data — Equality Before Law 7 Article 8: ND — Right to Remedy Article 8: No Data — Right to Remedy 8 Article 9: ND — No Arbitrary Detention Article 9: No Data — No Arbitrary Detention 9 Article 10: ND — Fair Hearing Article 10: No Data — Fair Hearing 10 Article 11: ND — Presumption of Innocence Article 11: No Data — Presumption of Innocence 11 Article 12: ND — Privacy Article 12: No Data — Privacy 12 Article 13: ND — Freedom of Movement Article 13: No Data — Freedom of Movement 13 Article 14: ND — Asylum Article 14: No Data — Asylum 14 Article 15: ND — Nationality Article 15: No Data — Nationality 15 Article 16: ND — Marriage & Family Article 16: No Data — Marriage & Family 16 Article 17: ND — Property Article 17: No Data — Property 17 Article 18: ND — Freedom of Thought Article 18: No Data — Freedom of Thought 18 Article 19: +0.21 — Freedom of Expression 19 Article 20: ND — Assembly & Association Article 20: No Data — Assembly & Association 20 Article 21: ND — Political Participation Article 21: No Data — Political Participation 21 Article 22: +0.08 — Social Security 22 Article 23: +0.21 — Work & Equal Pay 23 Article 24: ND — Rest & Leisure Article 24: No Data — Rest & Leisure 24 Article 25: ND — Standard of Living Article 25: No Data — Standard of Living 25 Article 26: +0.29 — Education 26 Article 27: +0.49 — Cultural Participation 27 Article 28: ND — Social & International Order Article 28: No Data — Social & International Order 28 Article 29: ND — Duties to Community Article 29: No Data — Duties to Community 29 Article 30: ND — No Destruction of Rights Article 30: No Data — No Destruction of Rights 30
Negative Neutral Positive No Data
Aggregates
Editorial Mean +0.30 Structural Mean +0.19
Weighted Mean +0.27 Unweighted Mean +0.26
Max +0.49 Article 27 Min +0.08 Article 22
Signal 5 No Data 26
Volatility 0.14 (Medium)
Negative 0 Channels E: 0.6 S: 0.4
SETL +0.18 Editorial-dominant
FW Ratio 63% 15 facts · 9 inferences
Evidence 14% coverage
3H 2M 26 ND
Theme Radar
Foundation Security Legal Privacy & Movement Personal Expression Economic & Social Cultural Order & Duties Foundation: 0.00 (0 articles) Security: 0.00 (0 articles) Legal: 0.00 (0 articles) Privacy & Movement: 0.00 (0 articles) Personal: 0.00 (0 articles) Expression: 0.21 (1 articles) Economic & Social: 0.14 (2 articles) Cultural: 0.39 (2 articles) Order & Duties: 0.00 (0 articles)
HN Discussion 10 top-level · 10 replies
stingraycharles 2026-02-27 12:03 UTC link
This is pretty cool, I wasn’t aware of these types of challenges. How does one even approach this?

Feels to me like it’s similar to dumping a binary with an image, the format being entirely custom.

And/or trying to decode a language or cipher, trying to recognize patterns.

bethekind 2026-02-27 13:49 UTC link
Model interpretability is going to be the final frontier of software. You used to need to debug the code. Now you'll need to debug the AI.
clouedoc 2026-02-27 14:42 UTC link
I'm really curious what were the magic words.

> Alex had actually tried to brute force the hash earlier, but had downloaded a list of the top 10,000 most popular words to do it, which turned out not to be big enough to find it. Once he had a big enough word list, he got the answer.

They don't reveal the answer.

neuroelectron 2026-02-27 15:15 UTC link
Give me unlimited API access maybe I can distill it
1024core 2026-02-27 16:32 UTC link
Seems like a thinly-veiled recruiting ad...
renewiltord 2026-02-27 16:57 UTC link
Another classic Jane Street puzzle. Boy this was a good one. Sometimes I look back at my childhood and how quick I was to solve some difficult integrals and so on and now I’d struggle at that. This is far beyond that but the leaps of intuition required here sort of have that property that they need you to stay in the game. Step away a few years and try to come back and there’s just a wall.

I don’t think I’m close to making progress on stuff like this. Interesting to note. Glad they wrote out this behind the scenes thing.

thatguysaguy 2026-02-27 17:20 UTC link
Ah dang. When I did this I also thought the length bug was intentional but I didn't figure it out before I started my new job, so I dropped the puzzle.
spuz 2026-02-27 19:36 UTC link
I was curious to see if I could crack the MD5 hash so I managed to write the following python code to extract the expected hash from the model:

https://gist.github.com/alexspurling/598366d5a5cf5565043b8cd...

Knowing the input text was two words separated by a space, I was able to use hashcat and the unix wordlist (/usr/share/dict/words) to find the solution almost immediately. It's a shame that Alex didn't find it this way on his first attempt as the two words are fairly common.

dang 2026-02-27 20:42 UTC link
[stub for offtopicness]
aizk 2026-02-27 21:52 UTC link
I worked on a puzzle like this roughly 2 years ago from Anthropic. I did the first half, the easier part of the CTF, and my friend did the second half, the more technical ML stuff. We both got interviews at Anthropic, which was cool - I wasn't anywhere close to nailing an interview at Anthropic but it gave me a lot of confidence to end up going all in on tech, which paid off greatly. My friend's short write up: https://x.com/samlakig/status/1797464904703910084
davedx 2026-02-27 12:19 UTC link
[flagged]
wittyusername 2026-02-27 12:31 UTC link
All I think when I see this is "this intelligence wasted on finance and ads."

Can you imagine human potential if it was somehow applied to crop harvesting efficiency, new medicines, etc?

Not everything has to be perfectly efficient but it just saddens me to see all these great minds doing what, adversarially harvesting margin from the works of others?

cess11 2026-02-27 12:34 UTC link
TFA details a solution, it's pretty interesting. Basically the problem was to reverse engineer an absurdly obfuscated and slightly defect MD5 algorithm.
user3939382 2026-02-27 14:26 UTC link
Jane Street skims money from our retirement accounts by building expensive clocks that the rest of us don’t have access to and adversarial queue modeling. We get WWVB and NIST NTP. They say they “add liquidity” as if subsecond trades are some fundamental need in the market. Normal legitimate business settles daily. The contemporary concept of time in banking is inhumane in the strictest sense. These firms are a blight on society.

I have strong math for the question they’re asking but f them.

pixl97 2026-02-27 14:56 UTC link
With the number of operations and the error rate in GPUs this is going to be interesting in SOTA models.
bowmessage 2026-02-27 15:15 UTC link
If I had to guess, “hot dog” would be the first thing I’d try. “Vegetable dog” was given as 0, and it may be alluding to a Silicon Valley episode.
paxys 2026-02-27 15:21 UTC link
Study math/statistics/ML at a graduate level, to start.
expensive_news 2026-02-27 17:50 UTC link
I was one of the solvers. It took me about a week to figure out. This is what I wrote out in my submission with the answer:

> After looking at the final two layers I was somewhat quick to intuit that this was some sort of password check, but wasn’t entirely sure where to go from there. I tried to reverse it, but it was proving to be difficult, and the model was far too deep. I started evaluating the structure and saw the 64 repeated sections of 84 layers that each process 4 characters at a time. Eventually I saw the addition and XOR operations, and the constants that were loaded in every cycle, and the shift amounts that differed between these otherwise identical sections.

> I thought it was an elaborate CTF cryptography challenge, where the algorithm was purposely weak and I had to figure out how to exploit it. But I repeatedly was getting very stuck in my reverse-engineering efforts. After reconsidering the structure and the format of the ‘header' I decided to take another look at existing algorithms...

Basically it took a lot of trial and error, and a lot of clever ways to look at and find patterns in the layers. Now that Jane Street has posted this dissection and 'ended' this contest I might post my notebooks and do a fuller post on it.

The trickiest part, to me, is that for about 5 of the days was spent trying to reverse-engineer the algorithm... but they did in fact use a irreversible hash function, so all that time was in vain. Basically my condensed 'solution' was to explore it enough to be able to explain it to ChatGPT, then confirm that it was the algorithm that ChatGPT suggested (hashing known works and seeing if the output matched) and then running brute force on the hash function, which was ~1000x faster to compute than the model.

bowmessage 2026-02-27 19:06 UTC link
Where is the veil...?
sublinear 2026-02-27 23:49 UTC link
Why? The vast majority of software doesn't need to be written by AI and moves at the speed of the humans making the decisions, not the speed of writing the code.

They make a shit ton of money because of this. If you're working at a place where the code matters more than the decisions that went into it, you're basically working at a sweatshop for people who are desperate for a win and will throw away you and all your code once the MVP stage is over, and that's the only way this "works".

Generative probabilistic AI is not equivalent to a compiler and never will be until we can do this kind of thing completely deterministically. No matter how much you reduce the error in the "model", it's still more error than the error rate of the logic gates. It's completely futile considering the sheer depth of indirection at play, and that indirection is the whole point of software.

Editorial Channel
What the content says
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Article 27 Cultural Participation
High Advocacy Coverage Practice
Editorial
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SETL
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Article explicitly discusses mechanistic interpretability research as valuable scientific practice; describes reverse-engineering neural networks as important tool for understanding AI systems; celebrates human capability to uncover scientific principles

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Article 26 Education
High Advocacy Coverage
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SETL
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Article is fundamentally educational; presents detailed problem-solving journey with explanations of multiple technical approaches (SAT solvers, constraint programming, algorithm analysis, mechanistic interpretability)

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Article 19 Freedom of Expression
High Advocacy Coverage
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Article advocates for knowledge sharing and freedom to publish technical information; demonstrates freedom of expression through detailed public disclosure of puzzle, model, and solution methodology

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Article 23 Work & Equal Pay
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Article frames technical work as intellectually rewarding and collaborative; emphasizes dignity of workers through positive characterization as 'brilliant' problem-solvers with access to supportive environment

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Article 22 Social Security
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Article briefly mentions positive work environment through reference to 'supportive colleagues' and substantial computational resources

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Structural Channel
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Article 27 Cultural Participation
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Jane Street publishes research findings, contributes to open source projects, and maintains research desk; provides resources and infrastructure for scientific advancement

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Article 26 Education
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Technical knowledge and puzzle are published freely online as educational material accessible to all readers without barriers

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Article 19 Freedom of Expression
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Content is published openly on blog without authentication, paywalls, or access restrictions; information is freely accessible globally

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Article 23 Work & Equal Pay
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Jane Street's recruitment and employment practices offer positions with substantial resources and development opportunities

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Jane Street actively recruits employees and offers positions with access to significant technical resources

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Jane Street discloses privacy policies but article does not discuss privacy

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Supplementary Signals
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Longitudinal 786 HN snapshots · 25 evals
+1 0 −1 HN
Audit Trail 45 entries
2026-03-02 00:02 dlq_auto_replay DLQ auto-replay: message 98083 re-enqueued - -
2026-03-01 18:56 eval_success Evaluated: Mild positive (0.23) - -
2026-03-01 18:56 model_divergence Cross-model spread 0.27 exceeds threshold (3 models) - -
2026-03-01 18:56 eval Evaluated by deepseek-v3.2: +0.23 (Mild positive) 11,888 tokens +0.11
2026-03-01 15:49 eval_success Evaluated: Mild positive (0.12) - -
2026-03-01 15:49 model_divergence Cross-model spread 0.27 exceeds threshold (3 models) - -
2026-03-01 15:49 eval Evaluated by deepseek-v3.2: +0.12 (Mild positive) 13,326 tokens +0.10
2026-03-01 02:51 eval_success Evaluated: Neutral (0.02) - -
2026-03-01 02:51 model_divergence Cross-model spread 0.27 exceeds threshold (4 models) - -
2026-03-01 02:51 eval Evaluated by deepseek-v3.2: +0.02 (Neutral) 12,379 tokens -0.14
2026-03-01 02:20 model_divergence Cross-model spread 0.27 exceeds threshold (4 models) - -
2026-03-01 02:20 eval_success Evaluated: Mild positive (0.16) - -
2026-03-01 02:20 eval Evaluated by deepseek-v3.2: +0.16 (Mild positive) 11,914 tokens
2026-03-01 01:02 dlq_auto_replay DLQ auto-replay: message 97933 re-enqueued - -
2026-02-28 23:24 dlq Dead-lettered after 1 attempts: Can you reverse engineer our neural network? - -
2026-02-28 23:24 eval_failure Evaluation failed: AbortError: The operation was aborted - -
2026-02-28 23:20 eval_failure Evaluation failed: AbortError: The operation was aborted - -
2026-02-28 19:12 dlq Dead-lettered after 1 attempts: Can you reverse engineer our neural network? - -
2026-02-28 19:12 eval_failure Evaluation failed: AbortError: The operation was aborted - -
2026-02-28 18:59 eval_failure Evaluation failed: AbortError: The operation was aborted - -
2026-02-28 15:37 eval_success Lite evaluated: Neutral (0.00) - -
2026-02-28 15:36 model_divergence Cross-model spread 0.27 exceeds threshold (3 models) - -
2026-02-28 15:36 eval Evaluated by llama-4-scout-wai: 0.00 (Neutral) 0.00
reasoning
ED, neutral tech blog post
2026-02-28 15:23 model_divergence Cross-model spread 0.27 exceeds threshold (2 models) - -
2026-02-28 15:23 eval_success Lite evaluated: Neutral (0.00) - -
2026-02-28 15:23 eval Evaluated by llama-3.3-70b-wai: 0.00 (Neutral) 0.00
reasoning
tech blog no rights stance
2026-02-28 11:12 eval Evaluated by claude-haiku-4-5-20251001: +0.27 (Mild positive)
2026-02-28 10:34 eval Evaluated by llama-4-scout-wai: 0.00 (Neutral) 0.00
reasoning
ED, neutral tech blog post
2026-02-28 09:11 eval Evaluated by llama-4-scout-wai: 0.00 (Neutral) 0.00
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2026-02-28 08:52 eval Evaluated by llama-4-scout-wai: 0.00 (Neutral) 0.00
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2026-02-28 08:48 eval Evaluated by llama-3.3-70b-wai: 0.00 (Neutral) 0.00
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tech blog no rights stance
2026-02-28 08:08 eval Evaluated by llama-4-scout-wai: 0.00 (Neutral) 0.00
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2026-02-28 07:51 eval Evaluated by llama-3.3-70b-wai: 0.00 (Neutral) 0.00
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tech blog no rights stance
2026-02-28 06:08 eval Evaluated by llama-3.3-70b-wai: 0.00 (Neutral) 0.00
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tech blog no rights stance
2026-02-28 05:33 eval Evaluated by llama-3.3-70b-wai: 0.00 (Neutral) 0.00
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2026-02-28 04:34 eval Evaluated by llama-3.3-70b-wai: 0.00 (Neutral) 0.00
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2026-02-28 03:10 eval Evaluated by llama-4-scout-wai: 0.00 (Neutral) 0.00
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2026-02-28 02:41 eval Evaluated by llama-4-scout-wai: 0.00 (Neutral) 0.00
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2026-02-28 02:39 eval Evaluated by llama-3.3-70b-wai: 0.00 (Neutral) 0.00
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2026-02-28 02:10 eval Evaluated by llama-3.3-70b-wai: 0.00 (Neutral) 0.00
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2026-02-28 02:08 eval Evaluated by llama-4-scout-wai: 0.00 (Neutral) 0.00
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2026-02-28 01:49 eval Evaluated by llama-3.3-70b-wai: 0.00 (Neutral) 0.00
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2026-02-28 01:24 eval Evaluated by llama-3.3-70b-wai: 0.00 (Neutral)
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2026-02-28 01:09 eval Evaluated by llama-4-scout-wai: 0.00 (Neutral) 0.00
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ED, neutral tech blog post
2026-02-28 01:01 eval Evaluated by llama-4-scout-wai: 0.00 (Neutral)
reasoning
ED, neutral tech blog post