Model Comparison 100% sign agreement
Model Editorial Structural Class Conf SETL Theme
claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 +0.20 +0.15 Mild positive 0.36 0.21 Economic Justice & Fair Competition
@cf/meta/llama-4-scout-17b-16e-instruct lite +0.40 ND Moderate positive 0.80 0.00 Antitrust
@cf/meta/llama-3.3-70b-instruct-fp8-fast lite +0.30 ND Moderate positive 0.80 0.00 Economic Rights
deepseek/deepseek-v3.2-20251201 +0.42 +0.13 Moderate positive 0.25 0.47 Economic Justice
Section claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 @cf/meta/llama-4-scout-17b-16e-instruct lite @cf/meta/llama-3.3-70b-instruct-fp8-fast lite deepseek/deepseek-v3.2-20251201
Preamble 0.20 ND ND 0.43
Article 1 0.10 ND ND ND
Article 2 ND ND ND ND
Article 3 ND ND ND ND
Article 4 0.10 ND ND ND
Article 5 ND ND ND ND
Article 6 ND ND ND ND
Article 7 0.10 ND ND ND
Article 8 0.20 ND ND 0.30
Article 9 ND ND ND ND
Article 10 0.10 ND ND 0.20
Article 11 ND ND ND ND
Article 12 0.10 ND ND 0.30
Article 13 ND ND ND ND
Article 14 ND ND ND ND
Article 15 ND ND ND ND
Article 16 ND ND ND ND
Article 17 0.30 ND ND 0.50
Article 18 ND ND ND ND
Article 19 0.32 ND ND 0.70
Article 20 ND ND ND 0.50
Article 21 0.20 ND ND 0.30
Article 22 0.10 ND ND ND
Article 23 0.50 ND ND 0.60
Article 24 ND ND ND ND
Article 25 0.30 ND ND 0.65
Article 26 0.16 ND ND ND
Article 27 ND ND ND 0.50
Article 28 0.20 ND ND 0.30
Article 29 0.10 ND ND ND
Article 30 ND ND ND ND
+0.20 The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax” (www.thebignewsletter.com S:+0.15 )
737 points by PaulHoule 880 days ago | 627 comments on HN | Mild positive Editorial · v3.7 · 2026-02-28 13:28:31 0
Summary Economic Justice & Fair Competition Advocates
This article is independent critical journalism advocating for antitrust enforcement against Amazon's monopoly practices. The primary focus is workers' rights—specifically how Amazon's algorithmic price-fixing and fee extraction coerce third-party sellers into unfair conditions—alongside consumer protection through transparency and fair market competition. The content strongly aligns with UDHR provisions on work, property, expression, and standard of living, framing corporate monopoly as a human rights violation.
Article Heatmap
Preamble: +0.20 — Preamble P Article 1: +0.10 — Freedom, Equality, Brotherhood 1 Article 2: ND — Non-Discrimination Article 2: No Data — Non-Discrimination 2 Article 3: ND — Life, Liberty, Security Article 3: No Data — Life, Liberty, Security 3 Article 4: +0.10 — No Slavery 4 Article 5: ND — No Torture Article 5: No Data — No Torture 5 Article 6: ND — Legal Personhood Article 6: No Data — Legal Personhood 6 Article 7: +0.10 — Equality Before Law 7 Article 8: +0.20 — Right to Remedy 8 Article 9: ND — No Arbitrary Detention Article 9: No Data — No Arbitrary Detention 9 Article 10: +0.10 — Fair Hearing 10 Article 11: ND — Presumption of Innocence Article 11: No Data — Presumption of Innocence 11 Article 12: +0.10 — Privacy 12 Article 13: ND — Freedom of Movement Article 13: No Data — Freedom of Movement 13 Article 14: ND — Asylum Article 14: No Data — Asylum 14 Article 15: ND — Nationality Article 15: No Data — Nationality 15 Article 16: ND — Marriage & Family Article 16: No Data — Marriage & Family 16 Article 17: +0.30 — Property 17 Article 18: ND — Freedom of Thought Article 18: No Data — Freedom of Thought 18 Article 19: +0.32 — Freedom of Expression 19 Article 20: ND — Assembly & Association Article 20: No Data — Assembly & Association 20 Article 21: +0.20 — Political Participation 21 Article 22: +0.10 — Social Security 22 Article 23: +0.50 — Work & Equal Pay 23 Article 24: ND — Rest & Leisure Article 24: No Data — Rest & Leisure 24 Article 25: +0.30 — Standard of Living 25 Article 26: +0.16 — Education 26 Article 27: ND — Cultural Participation Article 27: No Data — Cultural Participation 27 Article 28: +0.20 — Social & International Order 28 Article 29: +0.10 — Duties to Community 29 Article 30: ND — No Destruction of Rights Article 30: No Data — No Destruction of Rights 30
Negative Neutral Positive No Data
Aggregates
Editorial Mean +0.20 Structural Mean +0.15
Weighted Mean +0.21 Unweighted Mean +0.19
Max +0.50 Article 23 Min +0.10 Article 1
Signal 16 No Data 15
Volatility 0.11 (Medium)
Negative 0 Channels E: 0.6 S: 0.4
SETL +0.21 Editorial-dominant
FW Ratio 53% 37 facts · 33 inferences
Evidence 36% coverage
4H 12M 15 ND
Theme Radar
Foundation Security Legal Privacy & Movement Personal Expression Economic & Social Cultural Order & Duties Foundation: 0.15 (2 articles) Security: 0.10 (1 articles) Legal: 0.13 (3 articles) Privacy & Movement: 0.10 (1 articles) Personal: 0.30 (1 articles) Expression: 0.26 (2 articles) Economic & Social: 0.30 (3 articles) Cultural: 0.16 (1 articles) Order & Duties: 0.15 (2 articles)
HN Discussion 20 top-level · 30 replies
anonymousDan 2023-10-04 12:30 UTC link
Fair play to this reporter for shining a light on all this, especially in relation to the redactions. Hopefully the secret court restrictions are lifted.
koalaman 2023-10-04 12:30 UTC link
This has been pretty obvious for a while. Whenever I do product searches on Amazon the prime eligible results are more expensive by exactly the shipping costs of the non prime vendors.

The only reason I keep it is for the video service which I'm guessing is the same for a lot of people.

fortran77 2023-10-04 12:39 UTC link
Good!

Though, to be fair, the switching cost for a consumer to start using Target.com (for example) isn't that high. I go to vendors like Target.Com, HomeDepot.Com, BestBuy.com and AliExpress.com for most of the things I used to use Amazon for.

thelastgallon 2023-10-04 12:50 UTC link
An excerpt from: https://pluralistic.net/2023/04/25/greedflation/

Amazon binds its sellers over to something called Most Favored Nation status. That means that sellers can't offer their goods more cheaply than they do on Amazon – even if it costs them (lots) less to sell in Target or direct from their websites. This means that every time a seller adds a dollar to their Amazon sale price, they have to add a dollar to the price of their goods everywhere else, too.

After a bunch of state AGs filed lawsuits against Amazon over this, the company promised to cut it out.

They lied.

A new filing in California's suit against Amazon reveals that sellers live "in constant fear" of retaliation from Amazon if they allow their goods to be sold more cheaply elsewhere.

exabrial 2023-10-04 12:57 UTC link
Apple, Google, Facebook, Amazon, break them all up. And for the love of crap, stop approving billion dollar mergers.
seatac76 2023-10-04 13:07 UTC link
This was blatant monopolistic behavior, control over prices outside your platform with the threat of platform access to enforce it is a slam dunk case.
someonehere 2023-10-04 13:12 UTC link
What does breaking up Amazon look like? I’m genuinely curious because half the comments I see in here are “break up Amazon!” or “break up FAANG!”

What does that look like? What would Amazon look like if broken up?

In the end we all know lobbyists from Amazon will somehow influence their outcome.

elforce002 2023-10-04 13:13 UTC link
They need to break Microsoft too. These 2 are too big and have a chokehold on many areas.
lsedgwick 2023-10-04 14:53 UTC link
I think this demonstrates a way in which all centralized power becomes, for good or for ill, partially absorbed into state power. A major country's government will always be able to exert lots of leverage against, e.g. tech companies, whether for legitimate or illegitimate reasons, it matters not which. They can always threaten regulatory or legislative actions which would be annoying or devastating to shareholders. Hence, behind-the-scenes conversations will always have an implicit fact of "please censor as we ask, provide data and backdoored access to which servers we ask, please don't take on the wrong political causes, elsewise there will be consequences."

Goodness knows that if the intelligence community or state law enforcement has ever wanted access to anything in AWS, now of all times would be when they have the easiest time asking for it! Anything to curry favor with someone who can speak a word of support to federal agencies and state officials.

keepamovin 2023-10-04 15:10 UTC link
I think the general idea across many companies in the U.S. is a good one: breaking up monopolies that are more vulnerable to external, globalized forces. The goal is to fertilize the business landscape with their metaphorical "whale-fall carcasses," enabling a flourishing of smaller, competitive entities. This strategy aims to revitalize and fortify the American economy against the looming tidal wave of foreign competition. Although this approach may be painful on a local level and even humiliating for some individuals, it's ultimately a sound strategy for macroeconomic management.
rqtwteye 2023-10-04 15:15 UTC link
While they are at it they should also go after the credit card companies. They have managed to extract a 2-3% tax on most retail transactions. There is really no reason why the fees should be that high in the age of electronic transactions.
0xADADA 2023-10-04 15:17 UTC link
HotTake: the result of this should be to nationalize Amazon to be the defacto national provider of AWS services, delivery, logistics, and backstopped retail services.
cwoolfe 2023-10-04 15:34 UTC link
This strategy has been adopted by eBay as well and artificially drives up prices. Let me elaborate.

Recently, eBay has made it so that only the products with paid ads are shown in places where customers click. This drives up the cost of everything by more than 10% which is eBay's ad fee. I refused to buy a paid ad to sell my MacBook. It sat on the site for a month, which is highly unusual for an in-demand and rightly priced product. Finally I lowered the price enough to get it sold.

Most consumers use the default site, which filters by Recommended (i.e. ads) The play for consumers to win at this new payola ad scheme is to always filter by lowest price (or in amazon's case Prime + lowest price)

But really, consumers don't win (and neither do sellers) because now these ads take up space in supposed "search results" for items which don't match the search terms (but are close enough) This creates frustration when you are looking for something to meet a specification, like E26 light bulbs for example. Here, it is pointless to show anything that doesn't meet that specification and yet the site shows them, and the seller has to pay the ad fee.

Please somebody make a site with no payola!

granzymes 2023-10-04 16:52 UTC link
>If this suit is resolved in the government’s favor, the remedy could be anything from ending anti-discounting measures to breaking up the firm.

There's a bit of an odd remedy issue with this lawsuit. The harm being asserted by the FTC is that Amazon charges more fees than competitors but requires that sellers not charge more on Amazon than on competing sites. Originally Amazon allegedly accomplished this with a Most Favored Nation clause, and today Amazon will kick you out of the "buy box" promotional space if they detect you offering lower prices elsewhere.

First, a breakup doesn't cure this harm. You could go all the way to the extreme of splitting Amazon's third-party marketplace into its own company and yet that company could still charge higher fees than competitors and condition the buy box space on sellers not offering lower prices elsewhere.

Second, no injunction makes sense either. Is a court going to force Amazon to advertise a price in the buy box that Amazon knows is not the lowest price available on the market? That's an absurdly anti-consumer thing for a court to order (and so a court would likely not order it).

So what cures the alleged harm?

helen___keller 2023-10-04 17:04 UTC link
I’m not sure I agree with the opening premise that offering “free shipping” is dangling a free lunch that doesn’t exist.

Technically this is true but it makes a lot of sense by creating an analogous experience as with retail.

If I walk to the corner store to pick up something I’m not paying a line item for the logistics that delivered that item from a factory in China, nor a line item for the rent to keep that item sitting on a shelf in walking distance. I just pay the price of the item, and those costs are baked in.

Maybe an economist can argue this isn’t the most efficient way of paying for externalities but it’s hard to argue it’s without reason. It’s clearly a preferred consumer experience. Amazon prime is like a Costco membership. The only difference is Amazon handles last mile from the fulfillment center, Costco expects me to provide last mile fulfillment with my car.

brucethemoose2 2023-10-04 17:49 UTC link
The FTC is going to lose this case like they have lost others.

They are suing someone with the power of a government. Whether it is "right" or not, the legal case needs to be incredibly strong and airtight to make it through court, and a loss looks really bad. It signals that other companies can be even more anticompetitive because they know the FTC will lose against the biggest fish in court.

slibhb 2023-10-04 18:57 UTC link
Legality aside, I'm not sure that Amazon is winning in the long run with this strategy. I mostly buy products direct from the manufacturer these days and virtually all manufacturers have high quality websites with solid ordering experiences. As long as they have the name recognition, they can either sell for higher on Amazon and take the advertising hit or just ignore Amazon altogether.

I continue to buy some stuff on Amazon. Mostly books (they're way cheaper than book stores) and gadgets (I bought a 12 volt car fan recently). The sort of stuff where I don't care who makes it.

happytiger 2023-10-04 19:19 UTC link
In order to effectively break up Amazon someone needs to deliver a trusted e-commerce layer for payments and delivery that rivals it and their delivery side.

People buy from them because it’s incredibly easy to check out, and because it’s incredibly reliable for delivery and most importantly they are the verb for e-commerce on the Internet: they own “buy online” as a brand and that’s a hard thing to compete with even if it gets broken up like ma Bell. Those three elements are very hard side problems you have to overcome to build a competitor.

Shopify is well on their way to delivering an easy checkout experience that could be aggregated to create a competitor of sorts, but delivery remains the hard side problem — the network of warehouses and reliable short term delivery windows you can count on. This aggregates demand and enables centralized payments, but you end up essentially replicating Amazons delivery system eventually to gain efficiency or remaining vulnerable until someone comes and takes you out with shipping rates.

It’s also the Craigslist problem all over again as well, because every small category of Amazon is an ocean to a competitor and each needs to solve all three hard side problems, so peeling off each division and improving the experience to consumers is a colossal task that wouldn’t create the same potential for efficiencies of scale or would end up advancing the possibility of winner take all relocation of the exact same issues.

I really do think Amazon needs to be broken up to create more competition, because the alternative seems like it would look a lot like the Costco scene from Idiocracy. That’s not a healthy end-result.

Also IMO Jet.com was the last upstart of any seriousness and they got taken out by Walmart, and that’s another angle anyone who breaks up Amazon has got to think about.

And then their is their oil and gas pipeline in the form of AWS, which is a strategic barrier all itself and allows Amazon to have insane scale that’s entirely paid for by entirely different customers. They can effectively operate for free on their own cloud.

They have layer upon layer of network type advantages that have to be unbundled if they are to be broken up, and unless it’s done profoundly well, they’re going to remain 1100 lb gorillas.

I could probably organize these thoughts better and more concisely but don’t have time at the moment, but this is what immediately comes to mind.

mountainofdeath 2023-10-04 19:33 UTC link
Much of what Amazon does is what other retailers already do. Amazon just does it more overtly and with smaller businesses. In fact, various aspects of this where pioneered by WalMart and Costco. 1. WalMart determines the expected product and expected price and tells vendors to take it or leave it. The agreement often has a stipulation that the same product can never be cheaper elsewhere which is sometimes easy as WalMart gets specific SKUs. 2. On the other side, Costco makes the majority of its money from memberships. The membership is a significant sunk cost and maintains brand loyalty from a mass affluent customer base (notice the similarity to Amazon Prime). Existing vendors will work closely with Costco to tailor products to this desirable market (see Costco specific SKUs for TVs, routers, etc). Upstart brands will go even further to get their wares in front of an audience with ample disposable income.

The Amazon policy basically says that the vendor must offer free shipping. Coincidentally, nobody can offer shipping for less than what Amazon offers therefore Amazon(FBA) is by default the lowest price. The only other company that can fight this with a logistics network of its own is...WalMart.

Then you have Chinese vendors who sell through networks of dropshippers and resellers at Amazon and other venues. It's why you see many vendors of seemingly the same item.

One thing to note is that it's mostly small and medium vendors of relatively low margin items that are the most hurt by Amazon's policies. Seller's of high margin items just eat into their margins while large vendors push back at Amazon and sometimes win e.g. Toilet Paper that comes directly out of a Georgia Pacific warehouse instead an Amazon warehouse despite being labeled as Prime and sold by Amazon.com, not a third party.

1vuio0pswjnm7 2023-10-04 20:35 UTC link
"Fortunately, our work on the secrecy of the Google trial is paying dividends. Here's FTC official Douglas Farrar arguing that the commission will push to get rid of the redactions:

We share the frustration that much of the data and quotes by Amazon executives in the complaint that describe what we allege is monopolistic and illegal behavior is redacted. Amazon has 14 days from the entry of a temporary sealing order to provide legitimate justification for preventing this information from being revealed. We do not believe that there are compelling reasons to keep much of this information secret from the public."

If Amazon has done nothing wrong then why so many redactions. It might succeed in keeping the facts sealed away from public view but it only raises more questions.

It sounds like Amazon is a heavy source of bots on the web if they need to continually scrape millions of websites to monitor pricing. Perhaps someone can explain how that works.

elashri 2023-10-04 12:39 UTC link
> The only reason I keep it is for the video service which I'm guessing is the same for a lot of people.

Which will start having ads unless you pay a fee for the ad-free experience starting next year [1]

[1] https://www.npr.org/2023/09/22/1201028854/amazon-prime-video...

hnuser847 2023-10-04 12:48 UTC link
The “hidden tax” described in the article is to sellers, not consumers. Free shipping is subsidy for consumers that costs Amazon billions of dollars. I have personally never seen what you’re describing.
ryanwaggoner 2023-10-04 12:51 UTC link
That’s likely because the non-prime vendors have to lower their prices to match prime, or they wouldn’t sell much.
ct0 2023-10-04 13:06 UTC link
Just change the SKU of the product so they are "different". Big box stores do it all the time to reduce the probability of price matching.
kibwen 2023-10-04 13:09 UTC link
The issue here is that Amazon's behavior makes the switching cost higher than it would otherwise be. You are penalized for the existence of Amazon even if you don't use Amazon.
endisneigh 2023-10-04 13:25 UTC link
It doesn't really matter because Amazon isn't going to be broken up to begin with.
proamdev123 2023-10-04 13:34 UTC link
Thanks for the list of alternatives!

Have you experienced any unexpected pros and/or cons from using those vendors instead of Amazon?

ezfe 2023-10-04 13:37 UTC link
Here are some possibilities (not claiming these are practical or a solution):

The first is splitting Amazon-retail from their other products (Alexa, Ring, AWS, etc.)

The second is splitting Amazon-logistics out. I'm not exactly sure how this would work, but it could be argued that Amazon logistics could operate standalone.

burkaman 2023-10-04 13:37 UTC link
Amazon marketplace, AWS, Whole Foods, Twitch, Fulfillment by Amazon, and maybe Amazon Studios could all be separate companies. I think Amazon marketplace would also be forced to end some practices like not allowing sellers to have lower prices elsewhere.
AnonymousPlanet 2023-10-04 14:17 UTC link
You have to add Microsoft to this list unless you live in complete denial about the massive monopoly that they have in office IT. And they are actually the first that should be broken up, splitting the office suite from everything else.
joenot443 2023-10-04 14:42 UTC link
Which products do you observe this for specifically? I buy from Amazon US all the time and I can’t say I’ve ever noticed that discrepancy, so I can only assume we’re looking at different products or from a different region.
lsedgwick 2023-10-04 14:58 UTC link
I guess this makes me a little demoralized about the utility of "anti-big-tech government actions," because to the extent any of these actions succeed, it's probably just sending a clear message to enhance state influence/access of other tech companies. If I get excited (and I want to) because "Amazon might be broken up!!1!", maybe that just means Google finally got the message and decided to put backdoors into <insert platform here> on behalf of <insert agency>.
billjings 2023-10-04 15:11 UTC link
An obvious choice would be AWS. AWS operates fairly independently of the rest of the company, and its huge profits subsidize the retail wing.
translucyd 2023-10-04 15:38 UTC link
But that would nationalize profits as well. What kind a world do you think that's a good thing??? /s
megaman821 2023-10-04 15:44 UTC link
Might as well just shut it down in that case. Amazon would be abandoned in mass if it was government run. People groan every time they see that the USPS is handling their delivery. I can't imagine how bad it would be if that same level of government competence was applied to all of Amazon's operations.
thfuran 2023-10-04 15:45 UTC link
We should cap the fees. France has fees of something like 0.25% due to regulation.
userabchn 2023-10-04 15:58 UTC link
Make corporation tax progressive, resulting in it being easier for small companies to compete with big ones, without requiring the government to decide what is and what isn't a monopoly.
dspillett 2023-10-04 16:01 UTC link
While this varies by territory, I'm UK based, I find the main benefits of Prime to be the next-day (even weekend) delivery, Saturday (even if not next day) delivery, and sometimes the locker delivery option.

Even where prime price is the same as other+delivery this wins out. Though at each price rise or other change I have to rethink if I consider I'm getting a good deal.

RandomLensman 2023-10-04 16:11 UTC link
Highly fragmented markets are also bad for price discovery - so how do we know what size to have?
themagician 2023-10-04 16:38 UTC link
Amazon Retail (Vendor Central), Amazon Marketplace (Seller Central), and Amazon Brands (Amazon Basics, Pinzon, etc.) probably need to be separate companies. You also have decide where Amazon Ads and Amazon Registry will live.

Currently these four services all exist under the same roof and it gives Amazon basically unlimited power to unilaterally destroy entire companies or brands with zero consequences and no effort.

jandrewrogers 2023-10-04 16:42 UTC link
It is interesting to note that the US government often requires the same kinds of MFN terms, even though it is usually much more expensive to do business with the government than the private sector. There are many ways of constructively working around MFN requirements but it creates collateral damage. For example, the practice of having very high prices that are steeply discounted for most customers is often an artifact of having the US government as one of your customers. For software, it is common to create a new product/service that is trivially different in some way so that you can justify a new SKU that is only sold to the government.

Amazon's practice is bad because it anchors pricing to their mandated cost structure. That the US government engages in similar practices should at least raise questions, because it has the same effect on the marketplace.

timmaxw 2023-10-04 16:57 UTC link
This writeup has a lot more details: https://www.wired.com/story/amazon-antitrust-lawsuit-cuts-to...

DC AG Karl Racine filed a lawsuit over this in May 2021. The judge threw it out, supposedly for lack of evidence that it actually raised prices: https://www.jurist.org/news/2022/03/dc-trial-court-dismisses... I can't find details; it's unclear what the evidence or lack thereof was.

CA AG Rob Bonta filed another lawsuit over the same issue in Sept 2022. Some juicy quotes here (although only one side of the story): https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bont... The CA lawsuit is set to go to trial in 2026.

granzymes 2023-10-04 16:57 UTC link
According to the FTC's lawsuit, Amazon no longer binds its sellers with a Most Favored Nation clause. Instead, Amazon now will refuse to promote an offer in its "buy box" space if it detects a lower price for that good on another website.

The FTC alleges that this simply reconstitutes the MFA since most sales on Amazon take place from the buy box. Amazon responds that it is within its rights to not promote uncompetitive offers that make its site look bad for not having the lowest available price.

s3p 2023-10-04 17:07 UTC link
Breaking the company up into smaller units that don't have the monopoly power of forcing their sellers to fix prices.
granzymes 2023-10-04 17:07 UTC link
I think a physical retail analogy would be to imagine that every store charges a variable "restocking fee" based on how much it costs to get a replacement for the item that you are purchasing. You don't know what that fee will be until the clerk is ringing you up. Then one day a store decides to bake the restocking fees into the price, and no longer surprises the consumer with a variable fee at the checkout counter.

This is clearly a win for consumers, who can now shop the aisles knowing exactly what they will pay for the item upfront before they put it in the cart and go to check out.

nickff 2023-10-04 17:18 UTC link
Why? You seem to be expressing outrage, anger, or frustration, but you're not giving the rest of us anything to think about.
hyeonwho22 2023-10-04 17:29 UTC link
Offering free shipping is not a problem. The problem is that mandating your suppliers subsidize free shipping and don't sell for cheaper prices elsewhere is blatantly anticompetitive, and has the effect of raising consumer prices on non-Amazon markets.
shadowgovt 2023-10-04 17:38 UTC link
This sort of practice is not as uncommon as one might assume.

It is extremely common for manufacturers to set a minimum advertised price (MAP) on the products they sell to retailers. This is done to keep the cost of, say, luxury goods above a certain value, or to ensure that even if demand falls off for a product, the product is sold from official channels at a price point that covers the raw-materials-plus-labor cost so the manufacturer isn't fundamentally selling at a loss. These agreements are generally enforced by both contract and tit-for-tat... Sometimes there are contractually-encoded penalties for going under-MAP, but sometimes the agreement is more "off the books..." If Amazon decides those Gucci purses are just taking up warehouse space and slashes their price to clear them, they can do that... If they don't want to have any Gucci purses to sell next year through official channels.

Why is this behavior legal for manufacturers but maybe not for Amazon? I can see no other reason than the law is path-dependent and arbitrary. "Fair trade" is a concept we invent as we go.

(Incidentally... As a consumer, it's useful to remember MAP exists when you hear whispers of "don't buy from unauthorized resellers." Sometimes the goods you get from those channels are shady, but sometimes they're exactly the same as the official-goods channels, shoveled into the back channel by an official retailer to clear warehouse space and reported to the manufacturer as 'damaged, lost' to preserve the MAP kayfabe).

granzymes 2023-10-04 18:15 UTC link
You are touching on a point that Benedict Evans has made quite eloquently in the past:

>There was a joke a few years ago that rent is the new [Customer Acquisition Cost], and that now applies to everything. The [Total Addressable Market] for search ads is not ‘advertising’ (let alone online advertising) but everything that is spent to reach and serve a customer, starting with retail rents. This applies to Amazon, but even more to Google - you can ask whether Google’s ads are ‘advertising’ or ‘marketing’, but also ask whether the TAM for buying placement in Google search results is ‘advertising’, ‘marketing’ or just its customers’ operating margins. How do you reach a consumer? Do you spend your budget on TV ads or search ads, or on retail rents, or on giving retailers a margin versus selling direct, or giving the retailer a better price for better placement, or free shipping, or a better returns policy? Everything below P&G’s COGS line is up for grabs.

https://www.ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2023/3/6/ways-to-thi...

There will be no site that does not offer advertising, because advertising allows the site to determine which sellers can afford to pay more while still being profitable. It's a scaled version of the same way a landlord will raise rents on a profitable storefront.

pierat 2023-10-04 18:21 UTC link
Thats not the only thing I caught, at least with Ebay.

During the pandemic, I decided to sell a bunch of a component I had stockpiled. (Im not a scalper. I got the parts when my dad died.).

I put them for sale with $100 minimum, auction. They ended up selling for $300. I was definitely happy.... until Ebay refused to send me my money, and instead demanded access to a bank account, after the sale was complete. Fuck that.

I found the user who bought it, traced to a business. Cool. I contacted him, explaining what happened. Turns out they did the same to him since he too was a seller. I told him that I'd honor the same price Ebay told me....

Ebay told me (seller) $300. Ebay told the buyer $350......!! Mind you, the fees are taken out of my $300, yet that $50 difference is Ebays scrape off the top.

Obviously, I sold it to them for $300, and provided screenshots of what I was being told, and they did the same. We arranged the sale over Paypal and worked like a charm.

And sure, Ebay's scamming as far as I can tell, everyone. But it's also reminded me to check on websites with a private mode browser and logged in, to see if there's funny games.

Editorial Channel
What the content says
+0.50
Article 23 Work & Equal Pay
High Advocacy Framing Practice
Editorial
+0.50
SETL
ND

Article's primary focus: extensively advocates for fair working conditions by documenting third-party sellers trapped, coerced, and exploited through algorithmic punishment and fee extraction. Central thesis that Amazon blocks alternative markets.

+0.40
Article 19 Freedom of Expression
High Advocacy Framing Coverage
Editorial
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Article is itself an act of critical independent journalism analyzing corporate power. Advocates for transparency against judicial secrecy limiting public information and press freedom.

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Article 17 Property
High Advocacy Framing Practice
Editorial
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SETL
ND

Article extensively documents how Amazon's monopoly creates artificial barriers to market entry and economic participation, preventing sellers from owning viable businesses.

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Article 25 Standard of Living
High Advocacy Framing Practice
Editorial
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SETL
ND

Article documents how Amazon's monopoly practices inflate prices for consumers through hidden fees and 'hidden tax,' directly lowering the standard of living and purchasing power.

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Preamble Preamble
Medium Advocacy Framing Coverage
Editorial
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SETL
ND

Article advocates for human dignity, fair treatment, and rule of law through critique of monopoly abuse and FTC enforcement action.

+0.20
Article 8 Right to Remedy
Medium Advocacy Coverage
Editorial
+0.20
SETL
ND

Article advocates for and reports on FTC legal action as effective remedy for monopoly abuse.

+0.20
Article 21 Political Participation
Medium Advocacy Coverage
Editorial
+0.20
SETL
ND

Article advocates for government action (FTC enforcement) to restore fair market conditions and consumer/worker protection, supporting democratic participation in market governance.

+0.20
Article 26 Education
Medium Advocacy Coverage
Editorial
+0.20
SETL
+0.14

Article provides extensive education on antitrust law, monopoly economics, and market mechanics, enabling readers to understand complex economic systems and governance.

+0.20
Article 28 Social & International Order
Medium Advocacy Framing
Editorial
+0.20
SETL
ND

Article advocates for fair market order and competition as prerequisite for enabling human rights, arguing that monopoly power disrupts the social order necessary for rights protection.

+0.10
Article 1 Freedom, Equality, Brotherhood
Medium Advocacy Framing
Editorial
+0.10
SETL
ND

Discusses how Amazon denies equal agency and real choice to third-party sellers through lock-in and forced compliance.

+0.10
Article 4 No Slavery
Medium Framing Practice
Editorial
+0.10
SETL
ND

Describes coercive market conditions forcing sellers to comply with Amazon's demands or lose market access, analogous to economic servitude.

+0.10
Article 7 Equality Before Law
Medium Framing Practice
Editorial
+0.10
SETL
ND

Discusses how Amazon's market dominance creates unequal treatment—competitors cannot match its pricing power and bundling strategy.

+0.10
Article 10 Fair Hearing
Medium Advocacy Framing
Editorial
+0.10
SETL
ND

Article critiques and opposes judicial secrecy, advocating for fair and public proceedings in antitrust cases.

+0.10
Article 12 Privacy
Medium Framing Practice
Editorial
+0.10
SETL
ND

Describes Amazon's algorithmic monitoring of prices across the internet to enforce price parity, raising privacy/surveillance concerns.

+0.10
Article 22 Social Security
Medium Framing Practice
Editorial
+0.10
SETL
ND

Discusses unfair conditions affecting third-party sellers and workers on the platform, raising social security and fair dealing concerns.

+0.10
Article 29 Duties to Community
Medium Advocacy Framing
Editorial
+0.10
SETL
ND

Article implicitly critiques Amazon's failure to exercise corporate responsibility, suggesting companies have duties to society beyond profit extraction.

ND
Article 2 Non-Discrimination

No substantive treatment of non-discrimination principles in content.

ND
Article 3 Life, Liberty, Security

No substantive treatment of right to life, liberty, and security of person.

ND
Article 5 No Torture

No substantive treatment of torture or cruel treatment.

ND
Article 6 Legal Personhood

No substantive treatment of recognition as person before law.

ND
Article 9 No Arbitrary Detention

No substantive treatment of arbitrary detention.

ND
Article 11 Presumption of Innocence

No substantive treatment of presumption of innocence.

ND
Article 13 Freedom of Movement

No substantive treatment of freedom of movement.

ND
Article 14 Asylum

No substantive treatment of right to seek asylum.

ND
Article 15 Nationality

No substantive treatment of nationality rights.

ND
Article 16 Marriage & Family

No substantive treatment of family and marriage rights.

ND
Article 18 Freedom of Thought

No substantive treatment of freedom of conscience, thought, religion.

ND
Article 20 Assembly & Association

No substantive treatment of peaceful assembly and association.

ND
Article 24 Rest & Leisure

No substantive treatment of rest and leisure rights.

ND
Article 27 Cultural Participation

No substantive treatment of cultural and scientific participation.

ND
Article 30 No Destruction of Rights

Meta-article on interpretation of rights declaration; not substantively addressed in content.

Structural Channel
What the site does
Element Modifier Affects Note
Legal & Terms
Privacy
No privacy policy visible in provided content.
Terms of Service
No terms of service visible in provided content.
Identity & Mission
Mission +0.15
Article 25 Preamble
Schema.org metadata identifies publisher as focused on 'history and politics of monopoly power,' suggesting institutional commitment to economic justice and fair market access.
Editorial Code
No explicit editorial standards or code of conduct visible.
Ownership +0.10
Article 19 Article 20
Author identified as Matt Stoller, Research Director for American Economic Liberties Project, suggesting independent journalism focused on consumer/worker advocacy.
Access & Distribution
Access Model +0.10
Article 19 Article 26
Schema.org indicates content 'isAccessibleForFree:true', supporting open access to information.
Ad/Tracking
No ad tracking mechanisms visible in provided content.
Accessibility
No accessibility features or statements visible in provided content.
+0.20
Article 19 Freedom of Expression
High Advocacy Framing Coverage
Structural
+0.20
Context Modifier
ND
SETL
+0.28

Free access tier and author identification support freedom of expression; subscription model provides reader choice.

+0.10
Article 26 Education
Medium Advocacy Coverage
Structural
+0.10
Context Modifier
ND
SETL
+0.14

Free access tier makes educational content accessible to general public without barriers.

ND
Preamble Preamble
Medium Advocacy Framing Coverage

Not applicable to preamble principles.

ND
Article 1 Freedom, Equality, Brotherhood
Medium Advocacy Framing

Not applicable.

ND
Article 2 Non-Discrimination

Not applicable.

ND
Article 3 Life, Liberty, Security

Not applicable.

ND
Article 4 No Slavery
Medium Framing Practice

Not applicable.

ND
Article 5 No Torture

Not applicable.

ND
Article 6 Legal Personhood

Not applicable.

ND
Article 7 Equality Before Law
Medium Framing Practice

Not applicable.

ND
Article 8 Right to Remedy
Medium Advocacy Coverage

Not applicable.

ND
Article 9 No Arbitrary Detention

Not applicable.

ND
Article 10 Fair Hearing
Medium Advocacy Framing

Not applicable.

ND
Article 11 Presumption of Innocence

Not applicable.

ND
Article 12 Privacy
Medium Framing Practice

Not applicable.

ND
Article 13 Freedom of Movement

Not applicable.

ND
Article 14 Asylum

Not applicable.

ND
Article 15 Nationality

Not applicable.

ND
Article 16 Marriage & Family

Not applicable.

ND
Article 17 Property
High Advocacy Framing Practice

Not applicable.

ND
Article 18 Freedom of Thought

Not applicable.

ND
Article 20 Assembly & Association

Not applicable.

ND
Article 21 Political Participation
Medium Advocacy Coverage

Not applicable.

ND
Article 22 Social Security
Medium Framing Practice

Not applicable.

ND
Article 23 Work & Equal Pay
High Advocacy Framing Practice

Not applicable.

ND
Article 24 Rest & Leisure

Not applicable.

ND
Article 25 Standard of Living
High Advocacy Framing Practice

Not applicable.

ND
Article 27 Cultural Participation

Not applicable.

ND
Article 28 Social & International Order
Medium Advocacy Framing

Not applicable.

ND
Article 29 Duties to Community
Medium Advocacy Framing

Not applicable.

ND
Article 30 No Destruction of Rights

Not applicable.

Supplementary Signals
How this content communicates, beyond directional lean. Learn more
Epistemic Quality
How well-sourced and evidence-based is this content?
0.67 high claims
Sources
0.8
Evidence
0.7
Uncertainty
0.6
Purpose
0.9
Propaganda Flags
2 manipulative rhetoric techniques found
2 techniques detected
loaded language
Describes Amazon's fee model as 'money laundering' and refers to it as a 'hidden tax.'
appeal to fear
Describes how consumers are unknowingly subsidizing Amazon through hidden costs: 'Consumers pay for the free shipping, it's just a hidden tax.'
Emotional Tone
Emotional character: positive/negative, intensity, authority
urgent
Valence
-0.4
Arousal
0.7
Dominance
0.6
Transparency
Does the content identify its author and disclose interests?
0.50
✓ Author ✗ Conflicts ✗ Funding
More signals: context, framing & audience
Solution Orientation
Does this content offer solutions or only describe problems?
0.56 mixed
Reader Agency
0.6
Stakeholder Voice
Whose perspectives are represented in this content?
0.45 4 perspectives
Speaks: corporationworkersgovernmentindividuals
About: individualsworkersinstitution
Temporal Framing
Is this content looking backward, at the present, or forward?
mixed medium term
Geographic Scope
What geographic area does this content cover?
national
United States, California, Washington, District of Columbia
Complexity
How accessible is this content to a general audience?
moderate medium jargon general
Longitudinal · 6 evals
+1 0 −1 HN
Audit Trail 26 entries
2026-02-28 13:28 model_divergence Cross-model spread 0.27 exceeds threshold (4 models) - -
2026-02-28 13:28 eval Evaluated by claude-haiku-4-5-20251001: +0.21 (Mild positive)
2026-02-28 10:18 eval_success Lite evaluated: Moderate positive (0.40) - -
2026-02-28 10:18 eval Evaluated by llama-4-scout-wai: +0.40 (Moderate positive) 0.00
reasoning
Editorial stance on FTC's lawsuit against Amazon
2026-02-28 10:18 rater_validation_warn Lite validation warnings for model llama-4-scout-wai: 0W 1R - -
2026-02-28 10:13 eval_success Lite evaluated: Moderate positive (0.40) - -
2026-02-28 10:13 rater_validation_warn Lite validation warnings for model llama-4-scout-wai: 0W 1R - -
2026-02-28 10:13 eval Evaluated by llama-4-scout-wai: +0.40 (Moderate positive)
reasoning
Editorial stance on FTC's lawsuit against Amazon
2026-02-28 10:12 eval_success Lite evaluated: Moderate positive (0.30) - -
2026-02-28 10:12 rater_validation_warn Lite validation warnings for model llama-3.3-70b-wai: 0W 1R - -
2026-02-28 10:12 eval Evaluated by llama-3.3-70b-wai: +0.30 (Moderate positive) +0.10
reasoning
ED implicitly supportive
2026-02-28 10:07 eval_success Lite evaluated: Mild positive (0.20) - -
2026-02-28 10:07 eval Evaluated by llama-3.3-70b-wai: +0.20 (Mild positive)
reasoning
ED implicitly supportive
2026-02-28 10:07 rater_validation_warn Lite validation warnings for model llama-3.3-70b-wai: 0W 1R - -
2026-02-28 10:07 model_divergence Cross-model spread 0.28 exceeds threshold (2 models) - -
2026-02-26 18:22 eval_success Evaluated: Moderate positive (0.48) - -
2026-02-26 18:22 eval Evaluated by deepseek-v3.2: +0.48 (Moderate positive) 15,286 tokens
2026-02-26 17:26 dlq Dead-lettered after 1 attempts: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax” - -
2026-02-26 17:25 rate_limit OpenRouter rate limited (429) model=llama-3.3-70b - -
2026-02-26 17:23 rate_limit OpenRouter rate limited (429) model=llama-3.3-70b - -
2026-02-26 17:22 rate_limit OpenRouter rate limited (429) model=llama-3.3-70b - -
2026-02-26 12:19 dlq Dead-lettered after 1 attempts: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax” - -
2026-02-26 12:18 rate_limit OpenRouter rate limited (429) model=llama-3.3-70b - -
2026-02-26 12:17 rate_limit OpenRouter rate limited (429) model=llama-3.3-70b - -
2026-02-26 12:15 rate_limit OpenRouter rate limited (429) model=llama-3.3-70b - -
2026-02-26 09:30 dlq Dead-lettered after 1 attempts: The FTC sues to break up Amazon over an economy-wide “hidden tax” - -