1328 points by pimterry 1697 days ago | 447 comments on HN
| Moderate positive
Contested
Editorial · v3.7· 2026-02-28 10:41:31 0
Summary Labor Rights & Free Expression Advocates
A personal blog post by Terence Eden exposing an unethical startup business model that paid people to secretly evangelize products during job interviews. The author explicitly rejected the opportunity on ethical and legal grounds, and later publishes the account after the NDA expired. The content advocates for worker dignity, freedom of conscience, authentic expression, and fair employment practices aligned with UDHR principles.
> Oh, we work with loads of recruitment consultants. They get paid for every decent candidate who gets interviewed, so they give us a cut of their commission.
Is this a thing? Could I offer to go interview at all the crappy companies I get recruiters for in exchange for $100?
"And it makes me wonder if Fronk is still out there...?"
Fronk realized that people will voluntarily evangelize technology if it meets certain criteria. Having signed an NDA, I can not disclose what those criteria are.
I used to work with a senior guy who went freelance and then bunched together with several other freelancers, also seniors, to form... "an operation". The MO was that one of them would go and interview for a permanent job, impress the heck out of everyone and then say "there's more like me, be happy to help you out, but on a contract basis and as a group." They were basically bait-n-switching them to outsource parts of their development and in some cases it worked, because their fees were very reasonable. And the fees were reasonable because they did very little of the actual work themselves and instead re-outsourced it to some Ukranain dudes.
Looked fishy as fuck and I'm not sure how it ended because I felt out of touch with the guy.
I love the implication that there's this shadow company, Fronk. Seemingly defunct, they're actually thriving secretly behind the facade of a failed startup.
Every marketing manager has engaged them privately to boost their numbers. Every developer secretly works for them on the side.
But no one anywhere ever talks about it until one day a former consultant notices an expired NDA.
There's a plot point in Zero History by William Gibson where one of the characters does viral marketing by engaging people in conversation in bars and promoting various things, I always thought it was reasonably neat because we tend to pick things up organically like that.
Fascinating to see that companies were actually trying approaches like that in the days where hearing about the hot new tech very much came from conversations with other engineers, rather than the wealth of places we have now for hearing about the latest & (potentially) greatest.
Modern jargon is crazy. Really hard to verify. I guess that's why these "draw spunky" tests are so prevalent, these days, because we can't trust a word out of anyone's mouth.
Makes me wonder why we would hire folks we can't trust, but I'm old-fashioned, and out of touch with what the kids are into, these days...
Similar but different. I recently closed out a Quality Engineering/CoE position and conducted two awkward phone screens where the "candidates" were running sales pitches for their side-gigs.
The discussions started normally, but quickly became transparent. When I mentioned a challenge, they explained how they used some product/company to help with the solution. I thought it sounded familiar but couldn't figure out from where. After the candidate answered a second question similarly, I searched and found the site.
The product is one of these consultancy projects is a thin wrapper on top of some other popular product. It finally hit me- Why the product sounded familiar is because I saw it on this candidate's LinkedIn page, listed as a founder. The other candidate, same situation, only he was a "board member."
Long term moles at a company, able to climb high and perform well due to remote work which enables:
- never really meeting the mole
- the “mole” is a superstar because they have a team of corporate raider-employed 10x’ers evaluating and executing everything that this mole does at work. The mole’s code is written by 3x MIT grads hot swapping on the keyboard. The mole’s biz ideas come from a few HBS grads. And so on.
Productivity, business intuition, and engineering talent is off the charts for this mole. It rises far enough in the hierarchy such that it maneuvers the company towards favorable action for that corporate raider. Every idea the mole suggests, the corporate raider works in the background to enable via favorable market conditions. Whoever is the public face of the mole’a reputation might be in flames if found out, but what’s that vs netting 3% of a corporate buyout valuation.
Now I'm worried I've done that job with Fronk and was not paid. There's a handful of companies, with Algolia coming to mind first, that I've evangalized in interviews because the product did fix a huge problem.
I was once asked to sign an NDA in order to discuss developing an app for someone. Upon signing, I learned that they wanted to make an App that let people check their makeup on their phone, without using the camera, by simply converting the pixels to 'mirror' colour. NEXT!
I wrote this because it seemed important to warn people about the dark corners of the startup world. So much of the coverage of startups is pure hype,so we need more books that offer a sober, realistic view of how chaotic these places can be.
Oddly enough, the startup seemingly died in 2018, and one of the Board members went to jail, but (I just learned) they apparently got an injection of new capital and now they are trying it all again.
I interviewed a guy once, after pleasantries he reached into his bag and pulled out a prototype of his invention, which he was trying to sell.
It was a fascinating conversation, I basically let him educate me on its theory of operation, then it was the next person's turn on the interview team.
Consensus building is a real thing that happens every day all the time. Most of us here who self-identify as "engineers" or "hackers" don't truly understand this - when we code, we rarely build actions by proxy, there are usually very explicit instructions being written and therefore we bias ourselves to assuming the rest of the world also works in an explicit, up-front way.
This "startup" had a shady business model and sounds fishy as hell, but sadly every day some group, person, or org is trying to consensus-build us to thinking and feeling in a certain way.
This sounds a bit like "Ad buddy", from a Netflix sci-fi series called 'Maniac':
"If you’re broke, you can sell yourself to an “Ad Buddy,” whereby your bills get paid in exchange for a person accompanying you everywhere and spouting advertisements, like a human pop-up you can’t close."
This makes me want to have candidates sign a document that states they are there interview for their own personal employment; not hired or otherwise paid to interview with us for the purposes of intelligence gathering or promotion of products or services.
I wonder how enforceable that would be. Probably, "It depends." As my lawyer friends would tell me. :-)
I also wonder how many candidates would see that and perhaps question their application to our company.
Bait-and-switch is consulting 101. Entice client in with the most senior person with the impressive resume. Assign someone else to do the actual work. That's what you generally get with any big-name consulting firm.
This is not necessarily bad! The senior in this case is more like the "brand" of the operation.
And - sorry about going now into stereotypes - Good Eastern europeans are really good coders. Would not hesitate a second outsourcing any development to ukraine or romania if the contractors are vetted and proven to deliver value.
Also, it sounds like the recruitment consultants might be in on it? If so, it’s also unethical for them to take commission on what they know is a fake candidate.
Had a Candidate come in from a recruiter that I had worked with before without incident but from the very first question the guy turned it a pitch for moving all our development to his outsourced team in India. I was so caught off guard that I let the guy talk for a good 5 minutes before cutting him off and ended things. I laughed, the recruiter was thoroughly embarrassed and sent someone else.
The author does say that he was doing a consultation for a DevRel programme. That sounds to me like it was either paid consultation, or essentially a sales process by the author to generate consultancy work. NDAs are common in both of those scenarios.
Signing an NDA before taking a job is indeed very atypical in the UK.
I got bait-and-switched as a candidate thinking I was going in for a sales pitch to find out it was an interview. I thought it was my company they were hiring (which I guess they were, but with me being butt-in-chair at their office).
I got weirded out when they asked for a resumé mid-pitch, and I said, I don't normally hand anything like that out, and I could give them our portfolio. I kept using the words "we" and "our" they kept using the word "you" and eventually it all clicked. I had been recruited for a job not a sales meeting. I handed them a 5 year old resumé that was kind of crumpled up, gave them my spiel and our rates, still using "our" and "we" then left feeling like I just wasted half an afternoon on nothing.
Less than an hour after I left, I was offered the gig at a 5% discount from my rate but with a guaranteed 30 hours a week. I never thought I would hear from them again. They are actually still one of my "best" clients.
A second anecdote - Half a year later, I was asked my opinion on converting a HUGE legacy project to a different web framework in a rewrite attempt to modernize it. To which I discussed another clients project and how easy it was to get off the ground quickly using the new framework, but said I wouldn't recommend it for such a large legacy conversion. And the Manager asked, "wait, you have another job... you are supposed to work for me." - Apparently he was unaware of the fact that they hired a company to consult them, not a developer.
"The market is heating up and I'm looking around. You look like you're doing interesting work, and I think that I could prove my real value to you in a relatively short amount of time."
I'm not sure how often this happens post-2008, but before that I knew several people (most would describe them as "beautiful young women") who were paid to go to busy bars and order a particular brand of alcohol. Or to encourage other people to buy those drinks for them, I guess. It seemed like a waste of money to me until I realized that I'd started ordering Jack Daniel's Honey liqueur because they'd installed one of those machines with the upside-down whiskey bottles at a bar I was in, and it sounded interesting.
So people are pretty susceptible to steering on things like alcohol preference, and it doesn't seem to take much to steer us.
You helped him sharpen the skill of never putting all your cards on the table. Having a convincing answer to that particular question other than "I need to pay the rent and think maybe I wouldn't hate this job" is a key interviewing skill.
In fact, the PR firm for the makers of a vodka brand did hire someone to order <insert brand> Vodka with a loud voice in various places when exporting it to the USA began, according to Carl Hamilton's book about the design of the bottle.
The practice is known as astroturfing, for the artificial grass. Okdo seems to do alot of it for Raspberry Pi. At this point I'm more or less expecting to see articles and videos on having Raspberry Pi take out the trash. If it could be done with any microcontroller or SBC, but it is pushed, the headline always includes the brand.
This reminds me of the Key and Peele robber sketch when the heist plan is to get a job at the bank, work there 30 years, and get a regular paycheck so the bank is giving you the loot without ever suspecting it.
I once interviewed a guy who put on a great show during the interview. The kind of interview that feels more like a well-practiced sales pitch than an honest conversation with the candidate.
Checking his LinkedIn, I discovered that he had a consulting company that ran concurrently with his most recent jobs. His most recent jobs were all less than 12 months of tenure, and the start/end dates didn’t match what he provided on his resume in some cases.
Curious, I started digging more. Through some LinkedIn friend-of-friend backchannel references I eventually deduced that he was trying to run his freelancing shop as his primary job while getting full-time employment at companies with flexible and/or remote employment where his real daily activities could go unnoticed (for a time). He collected a paycheck and benefits while running and building his freelance company. He would also try to recruit some of his coworkers to become part of his consulting company “on the side”. I suspect he was trying to outsource his own work to his freelancers as well.
Eventually each company would catch on and get sick of his behaviors, strange lack of availability and presence during the day, and work output that varied depending on how much contract work he was trying to do.
Then he’d move on to the next company to continue collecting benefits and a paycheck remotely while running his freelance shop.
I had the idea of going out and flirting with guys directly, then giving them your onlyfans as your contact. I imagine this would effectively be a money printer.
I'm surprised onlyfans women don't do this routinely. If you were an even marginally attractive women, and you could hold a decent conversation for 20 minutes, I probably would be stuck ponying up $10 to see you naked. Even knowing that I got played.
This would be a more plausible conspiracy theory with state-level actors; I imagine the TLA's have the resources to do this, and it might make sense to do at somewhere like google/intel/microsoft with some juicy payoffs. Otherwise it seems like more work than actually starting a company to do whatever the mole is accomplishing. I like that the mole's preferred pronoun is "it"..
My favorite version of this was “ Find the Mystery Cougher” by Ricola. This was like… 2005? Basically they had a contest where they announced they’d be sending someone to various cities, walking around and coughing. If you offered the mystery cougher a Ricola, you’d win the contest and get a million dollars or whatever.
It’s like inverse astroturfing, and also arguably incentivizes friendly social behaviors. Genius.
I had an interview recently where the hiring manager went through his usual list of questions ("why do you want to work for us?" "Why are you looking to switch?" "what interests you about the role?") and my only answer was "your recruiter hounded me for weeks and begged me to do this interview."
I have issues with the lack of ethics on display, but as someone very senior and aging out, I’d much rather work with a group like this for a few years than simply retire now-ish which is my current plan.
I wish there was a way to discover/join groups like this. My specialty at this point is SW project rehab by just being a realistic, experienced adult. Modernization but avoiding the blog-oriented design plague. It would just be very nice to work in a mission-specific context with a very senior team.
But I’d point out that tech companies farm interviewees for ideas on how to approach problems all the time and don’t hire the vast majority of qualified candidates.
It’s unpaid labor.
It’s a bit of karmic justice to hear of people turning the table and using this as a way to inject ideas into a target company.
In the real world, I suspect most corporate threats require significantly less effort.
When I first started interviewing candidates I was surprised at how readily some people volunteered confidential information about their previous employer. I frequently have to ask people to stop sharing confidential details about their current projects or even problems their current employer is having.
I've long suspected that the easiest way to extract confidential information from a company would be to pose as a reputable recruiter from a glamorous company with high wages, then simply get in touch with a company's employees and ask them what they're working on.
Article explicitly exercises freedom of expression by publishing details about a former employer after NDA expiration. The narrative champions authentic expression free from commercial pressure and deception.
FW Ratio: 60%
Observable Facts
Author publishes detailed account of startup practices after NDA expired
Article states 'I reckon I'm in the clear to talk about this'
Site displays 35 comments from readers engaging with the topic
Inferences
The publication exercises and champions the right to speak about previously confidential matters once legal restrictions expire
Site's comment section enables public discussion and response, supporting collective expression
Article is central to right to work under conditions of dignity and fairness. Author explicitly refuses employment that would require deception and violations of professional ethics, affirming the right to work with integrity.
FW Ratio: 75%
Observable Facts
Author states 'I did not take the job' due to ethical concerns
Author explicitly identifies concerns about 'ethics and legality of their business model'
Proposed role would require misrepresenting qualifications and false product advocacy
Inferences
The author demonstrates commitment to the right to work in conditions of dignity and without coercion to deceive
Article is fundamentally about freedom of thought and conscience. The author was offered payment to express false beliefs about products and explicitly rejects this coercion of conscience.
FW Ratio: 67%
Observable Facts
Author was proposed to be paid to evangelize InfiniDash despite having no genuine experience or belief in the product
Author declines the opportunity stating ethical concerns
Inferences
The author's refusal affirms the right to freedom of conscience and authentic thought
Article emphasizes community obligations and personal responsibility by demonstrating ethical conduct and warning others about practices that undermine professional integrity.
FW Ratio: 67%
Observable Facts
Author refuses participation in unethical scheme despite financial incentive
Author publishes warning/testimony about the scheme after NDA expires
Inferences
The author demonstrates personal commitment to ethical obligations and community welfare
Article critiques a scheme that would create systematically unfair advantages for corporate clients and disadvantages for job candidates, implicitly advocating for equality before the law.
FW Ratio: 50%
Observable Facts
Author raises concern about a business model that creates asymmetric information and power imbalances in hiring processes
Inferences
The author's opposition reflects commitment to fair and equal treatment in professional contexts
Article implicitly affirms equal rights and dignity by criticizing a system that would treat job candidates as mere instruments of corporate deception.
FW Ratio: 50%
Observable Facts
The proposed scheme would position candidates as unwitting tools for product evangelism without their informed consent
Inferences
The author's rejection of this model reflects belief in human worth independent of economic utility
Article describes a scheme that violates privacy by covertly influencing candidates' statements without informed consent, and implicitly opposes such practices.
FW Ratio: 67%
Observable Facts
The proposed model explicitly hides its intention from job candidates and interview panels
Author recognizes this covert influence as ethically problematic
Inferences
The author's critique treats privacy and informed participation as basic requirements for ethical conduct
No privacy policy or data handling statements observed on-domain.
Terms of Service
—
No terms of service detected on-domain.
Identity & Mission
Mission
—
No explicit mission statement observed on-domain.
Editorial Code
—
No editorial standards or codes of conduct observed on-domain.
Ownership
—
Ownership not clearly identified on page; appears to be individual blog.
Access & Distribution
Access Model
+0.10
Article 19 Article 26
Content appears freely accessible without paywall or registration, supporting broad access to information and ideas.
Ad/Tracking
—
No advertising or tracking mechanisms observed on-domain.
Accessibility
+0.15
Article 19 Article 26
Theme switcher with dark/light/eInk/xterm/nude modes demonstrates commitment to accessible presentation for diverse users including those with vision impairments or specific accessibility needs.
Article implicitly affirms equal rights and dignity by criticizing a system that would treat job candidates as mere instruments of corporate deception.
Article critiques a scheme that would create systematically unfair advantages for corporate clients and disadvantages for job candidates, implicitly advocating for equality before the law.
Article describes a scheme that violates privacy by covertly influencing candidates' statements without informed consent, and implicitly opposes such practices.
Article is fundamentally about freedom of thought and conscience. The author was offered payment to express false beliefs about products and explicitly rejects this coercion of conscience.
Article is central to right to work under conditions of dignity and fairness. Author explicitly refuses employment that would require deception and violations of professional ethics, affirming the right to work with integrity.
Article emphasizes community obligations and personal responsibility by demonstrating ethical conduct and warning others about practices that undermine professional integrity.
build 1ad9551+j7zs · deployed 2026-03-02 09:09 UTC · evaluated 2026-03-02 13:57:54 UTC
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